Pastor Michelle Thomas

Jim Crow And Beyond in Loudoun County, Virginia

Loudoun NAACP President and historian Pastor Michelle Thomas participated in a Q&A with students on issues from the Jim Crow era and current race issues in Virginia. With her is Katina who interviewed her on the Jim Crow era of Loudoun County. Katiana showed our appreciation by  presenting Pastor Michelle with an original copy of Booker T. Washington's book Up From Slavery. This discussion took place Feb. 27th, 2019.

Pastor Michelle began by discussing inequalities in Loudoun County Public Schools which have their roots in the Jim Crow era.

Luke (left)  What did you think of those that called Booker T. Washington an  "Uncle Tom"?  ANSWER-  So the only people that would be calling him an "Uncle Tom" would be black people.  There are two side to a coin. So you have a person that's promoting education (W.E.B. DuBois) and a person (Booker T. Washington) promoting skilled labor. The truth is not everybody can go to college and don't need to. But when you're deprived of something it can be a badge of honor to be an academic person....but what if you're the best plumber that anyone has ever seen? What if you're the best electrician? There is nothing wrong with being a skilled laborer. My dad was a skilled laborer, He supported eight children and a wife!

Connor (middle) Have you ever reacted directly with a KKK member?  ANSWER- Absolutely. After the Charlottesville incident we had part of an alt-right community that had applied for a marching permit. The man was from this area and was granted the permit. Everybody has the right to march. The only thing you can do is build relationships really fast and hope that you can influence him. I called him and met with him at Starbucks in Ashburn and we talked about it. I asked him "do you really want to see your town burned down? Do you really want to see me dead?"  After we had several hours of a conversation he withdrew the permit.

Dhruv- We saw a “Herndon Day-1925” flyer which advertised the KKK as one of the attractions. Did a majority of people in this area think the KKK was a normal organization? ANSWER- The KKK was an attraction, they would try to bolster their strength and all across the country, show off their strength. Because during that time you have formerly enslaved people who were getting paid for what they had done before. So they needed to show off their strength.

Sophia- In the KKK flier that Dhruv mentioned it said they would be out in "full force."  Do you know what that means?  ANSWER- Yes, it means with tiki torches and all of that bravado of hate that says 'you are oppressed and I'm going to terrorize it." It means coming out like they came out in Charlottesville. You had crosses and burning crosses and racist rants and guns and whatever you need if you get out of line.

Prior to Ethan's question- A picture of a lynching with children looking on.

Ethan-  How do you think the children watching all these lynching's were affected throughout their life?  ANSWER- If you are a child and these are the images a child has, remember children are very resilient so they're not really processing all of this as to what is right and what is wrong. But their building up a resistance to humanity and a tolerance for terrorism. That begins to breed a new generation of Klansmen and white supremacists and Aryans that we are still experiencing today. Hate is a learned behavior and these kids are at school.

Max- In the Plessey v. Ferguson Supreme Court case the majority wrote "We consider the underlying fallacy of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of anything found in the act, but solely because the colored race chooses to put that construction upon it." They seem to be blaming black people for their status. Do you see anything like this today?  ANSWER- Absolutely. You see it very clearly when you argue about achievement gaps in schools. Most times the gaps are with people that are not of color. But people of color have so many obstacles. But you don't blame the obstacles you blame the kids. Maybe you don't have food security or maybe you don't have a stable place to stay? Is that their fault?

Emma- Mark Herring dressed up like rapper Kurtis Blow including blackface when he was a freshman in college. Why does this interpretation have to be racist? Why can't the interpretation of that be that Herring was honoring the rapper? ANSWER- I welcome people honoring rappers such as Kurtis Blow, however, it was the fact that Herring wore blackface that crossed a line. It is alright to honor the rapper through their music, style, etc., but, using blackface is where this interpretation becomes racist. If an African American wanted to imitate Elvis Presley, they wouldn't put on whiteface. White people should not be wearing blackface to imitate African American people. 

Mike- What was your reaction when the KKK fliers started showing up in Loudoun last year?  ANSWER- So initially when it happened last year, it was a strange. It was like one hit after another, it shows up in Halloween parade, then it shows up on Martin Luther King Day six weeks later, it shows up again, and it was just one hit after the other, and it was exhausted. I'm never the type of person that gets stuck in hate or get stuck in an issue. I have to find the resolve, but that's the type of person I am so I work with groups to find ways to help, there's a love your neighbor campaign. And so I work with them to get the message out to love our neighbors to be intentional just like the KKK was been intentional. So that is a personal response. The NAACP decided to have a series of roundtables with elected officials and police to find out legally what were some of our options. The problem is it's hard to find the person that threw those fliers. We hope to create  a hate-crime bill to prosecute offenders in the future.

Allison- What will your interpretation be if Northam and Herring remain in office but the black office-holder (Justin Faifax) is forced to resign?  ANSWER- It will be mayhem, if there was not an investigation. There must be a full investigation or we undermine our Constitution. Due process is a part of the law. And you don't get to cherry-pick it based on color or status. Or even accuser.

Cara-  Our justice system is based on being presumed innocent. So if there is no evidence against Justin Fairfax why should be impeached or resign?  ANSWER- Justin is an unintended consequence. This issue did not come up and probably would not have come up but because he was sandwiched in between two offenses (Northam and Herring  blackface) . That doesn't make it right or wrong but the issue is the blackface. Now due process is integral in a civilized society. Black Americans often don't get due process. If we did Emmit Till would be here  today. Did Fairfax do that? I don't know. But should we investigate? Absolutely.

Anne- A recent poll showed that 60% of black people in Virginia were willing to forgive Gov.Northam. Does that mean he should stay in office?  ANSWER- It's obvious that he's not leaving. I can't tell you if he should leave or stay. But I think leadership matters. But when you are wavering on apology I think  that shows poor leadership. But when you admit that you did something wrong and then take it back that is so injurious and so disingenuous. So I don't trust your leadership anymore. If it were me, I would step down.

Hannah- After Charlottesville, the next place they were planning to march was Leesburg regarding the Confederate statue. That event was cancelled. If they had come what would your approach have been?  ANSWER-  There are times when you're able to negotiate with your adversary or enemies and it requires a great deal of spiritual strength and a great deal of emotional intelligence and faith in humankind. So you meet with them and try to negotiate. Often you're able to meet then in their hurt places and speak to them.

Madison- At Charlottesville the neo-Nazis were chanting "Jews will not replace us." What do you think they meant by that?  ANSWER- That was a multi-layered comment and it wasn't just a person-to-person replacement but literally were talking about power. So whether it was economic power or that sort of thing, that's what they were discussing. It is a loaded bomb.

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Ashlyn- After Charlottesville Andrew Young was on Meet The Press and he said "they (KKK/Neo-Nazi types) need our compassion, they are the lowest of the low and forgotten." What is your reaction to that?  ANSWER- I'm originally from Atlanta, I went to school with  Bo Young, the youngest child...it's like talking about my Uncle (Andrew Young). I respect Andrew Young but you have to remember, he's not just an activist, he's a reverend, he is a minister and so his goal is always going to be to unify and uplift and to make sure sinners are converted.

Amber- Do you know of any white people that tried to help black people during Jim Crow era similar to abolitionists during the slavery era?  ANSWER- When Martin Luther King began to amplify his message that showed the coalition it that it wasn't just black people that were upset at the oppressive times. There was a varied group of people, good humans,black,white, Greek Orthodox, Muslims, Jews, they were all together marching for freedom.

Principal Tim Flynn expressed his appreciation to Pastor Michelle for educating his students....and the kids expressed their appreciation when he bought them pizza!